"Appreciation Burrito"
EPISODE 209
Push Friends to Deeper Devotion
Everybody loves getting poked in the eye, right? No, it’s never fun on either end of those “we need to talk” moments between friends, yet the Bible calls a friend’s wounds “faithful” (Prov. 27:6). So session 7 of our Two by Two study focuses on how friends sharpen each other like iron on iron (Prov. 27:17). It may sound like we’re contradicting ourselves after we just discussed a “circle of safety,” so we ask “What’s the Deal?” with that and harmonize these two crucial aspects of friendship. We also learn from Jesus’ example of telling it straight to the young ruler. And we share what we’ve each learned about having difficult conversations. As you work towards stronger bonds in YOUR life, spend some time with the first seven sessions of this 9-part guided study at biblegeeks.fm/twobytwo.
Takeaways
The Big Idea: A foundation of trust lets us say — and hear — the hard truths.
This Week's Challenge: Consider how to stir up a friend to love and good works this week.
Episode Transcription
We wrap the whole thing up in an honor rap or an appreciation burrito, right? Appreciation burrito. [MUSIC PLAYING] Well, hello, everyone, and welcome to By the Geeks podcast. This is episode 209. I'm Bryan Schiele. I'm Ryan Joy. And thanks so much, everyone, for tuning in. We are in session seven of our two by two guided study. This is seven out of nine, so we only have two more conversations in this series to go after. I would say seven of nine. Seven of nine. I had an alarm bell go off with that. But-- Yeah, sorry, Star Trek fans. But we will be getting into session seven here of nine. And on this conversation, we're going to be talking about sharpening each other. And this is all about giving constructive feedback and making sure that our friends understand that they can't just be the way they are. They've got to change to be the friends we want them or need them to be. [LAUGHTER] I think you might have missed the point of that one. I'm sorry, what? See previous episodes about acceptance and limiting judgment. But yeah, there's a time to step in and say, friend, you need to change. Yep. And so to kick this conversation off, we have a conversation starter. And that one we called Friends Don't Let Friends. [VOCALIZING] This is two by two. Friends Don't Let Friends. I remember an old public service campaign slogan that said, friends don't let friends drive drunk. And it made a compelling point. If you care about someone, you speak up to help them make wise decisions. And shouldn't that go beyond driving under the influence? Friends don't let friends live recklessly and drift off the narrow road either. We can't control each other's actions, but we can speak the truth in love and push one another to deeper devotion. So here's the big idea. A foundation of trust lets us say and hear the hard truths. Friendship is more than getting along. When you care, you step up and stand up for your friend's future, faith, and long-term well-being. We consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, challenging each other to grow in Christ. Like iron sharpens iron through accountability, love, and the occasional courageous conversation, one man sharpens another. When the rich young man asked what to do to have eternal life, Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said, go sell all that you have and give to the poor. Jesus' frankness was an act of love because wise words are often a lifeline. Friends don't let friends wander from the truth. We try to save their soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. A mugger's knife and a surgeon's scalpel can both cut you, but one wants to take from you while the other cuts to heal. All wounds hurt, but faithful are the wounds of a friend. Friends don't jump on every failure, but in those critical "we need to talk" moments, everyone needs someone who cares enough to do what's uncomfortable, risking the relationship to help you. So here's the big question. Do you have the courage to say what your friend needs to hear? So follow along with this guided study of biblegeeks.fm/twobytwo, and may the Lord bless you and keep you to bed. Shalom. So the big idea we talked about there in our conversation starter was that a foundation of trust lets us say and hear the hard truths. I found it really interesting there that you talked about the difference between something that cuts for a destructive purpose, but something that cuts for a constructive purpose. And I think it's funny just how a friend can say the same exact thing that a stranger might say, but it totally lands differently when it's somebody close to us. And I feel that so deeply, just knowing how many times I've been lovingly poked in the eye by those people who are close to me versus how many times I get those drive-by criticisms from people who don't even know you, but they're just a lot... Like, it's the comment section on YouTube, right? It's like the people who don't actually care about you or love you or know you at all, they just want to tell you all the ways that you need to be different. So I think this whole idea of laying a foundation of trust that we've been talking about in the previous episodes is really going to help grease the skids, so to speak, for all the challenging things that we might actually need to say to each other. Yeah, we're building to those moments when we need that trust. That's exactly it, I think. And the big question there is, do you have the courage to say what your friend needs to hear? It made me think back, I think my dad's favourite saying was, "You do what you gotta do." I must have heard him say that a hundred times, like, "This is life, you do what you gotta do." And necessity is the mother of invention, maybe that's a more popular phrase, but the most important word, I think, in this whole question, at least for me, is the word need. It's not about what we want to say. When we're committed and concerned about a friend, we see certain conversations, certain actions we have to take, as necessary. It's like that man who ran into a burning building to save a trapped child. Other people called it courage, but he felt he didn't have a choice. It's not courage whenever you just do what you have to do. We do what we must. And if we're led by love, then we see these moments when a friend is floundering or is in some destructive pattern, whatever it is, a part of their life that needs to change, and we step up and we speak. Yeah, that necessity, I think, is super eye-opening, right? Because I think it takes a lot of discernment, as I'm sure we're gonna talk about in this conversation, right? It's like, what does need to be said is not always clear. And when you deeply feel it out of love, that you know the loving thing to say is actually the challenging thing that needs to be said. That's really what's guiding, I think, a lot of our motivation in talking to each other and leading each other to be better. And I think that kind of gets us into our icebreaker question here. And the question that we have for our icebreaker this time is, "What piece of friendly advice do you value now but didn't at the time?" I can think of a bunch of these. What about you? I had a hard time thinking of something light and fun for an icebreaker. The one that came to mind first is, speaking of my dad, I remember him telling me, probably in response to me being stern with a child, one of my kids, that he, in his time as a parent, as he looked back, he regretted coming down so hard on us kids all the time. And that if he had it to do over, he wouldn't have jumped on every disciplinary issue the same way that he did. And, you know, he definitely wasn't saying not to discipline the kids. If you know my dad, you know that isn't what he was saying. But that with some perspective, as the years have gone on, he saw that he was overreacting to some of the little things. And at the time, in the thick of it, with a bunch of small kids, it was just hard to hear, you know, "I'm just doing my best that I can, and it's frustrating, but I keep telling him to do this thing or not do this thing, and I am going to get this across to them." And, you know, you're just working, not trying to be a big angerball all the time, but trying to discipline them. And I think I'm starting to get what he meant, and it's affected how I handle things. Again, not to be less committed to correction, which would be antithetical to this very conversation we're in, but to be more intentional and to have that big picture awareness of the overall well-being that we're seeking for the kids and how this fits into the shepherding we're trying to do and dealing with everything appropriately. Spoken like a true grandpa, right? - Yeah, for sure. - "Well, now you tell me, Dad." Oh, sure, yeah. Boy, you nailed it there. Oh, man, for me, though, I couldn't even think of anything serious, because all I could think of was all the people in my life who told me, at various times in my development and, you know, middle sort of 20s and mid-30s, that I needed to lose some weight and cut my hair. (LAUGHTER) - And to be honest... - Oh, that's awesome. But I needed to hear that, for sure. Somebody bought me a gift card, a $100 gift card, to Jack in the Box in college, and let's just say that spiralled out of control pretty quickly, so... (LAUGHTER) Yeah, just not the kind of stuff you want to hear all the time, but it was definitely useful. Looking back at pictures, it's like, "Oh, yeah, maybe I should have listened to somebody all the way back then." Everybody loves to hear, especially young boys, that they need a haircut. - No doubt. - That's just right in the sweet spot of wisdom we're ready for, right? (LAUGHTER) Iron sharpening iron, right? OK, so our next segment is Like the Teacher, and we're gonna look at a classic moment, Mark 10, 17-22. This is when the rich young ruler, as we call him, kind of a composite of the different things that the synoptics call this young man, and this man comes up to Jesus and asks him, "What he must do to have eternal life?" And Jesus says to him, "Why do you call me good? "No one is good except God alone. You know the commandments. "Don't murder, don't commit adultery, don't steal, "don't bear false witness, honor your father or mother." And he says, "Teacher, I've kept all these things from my youth." And then Jesus looks at him and loves him, and says to him, "You lack one thing. "Go sell all you have and give to the poor, "and you'll have treasure in heaven, and come follow me." And of course, sadly, the man is disheartened by the saying, and he goes away sorrowful because he had great possessions. So when you look at this and think in the context of this conversation, what do you take from Jesus' example here? - Yeah, I think I've told the story on the podcast a few times about Ashlyn's game that she used to play growing up, how she would, at the table, she'd make us close our eyes as she would hide things that were previously on the table, and then we'd open up our eyes and she'd say, "What's missing?" And make us guess, what is it on the table that's now missing that used to be there? It's kind of what this man is doing, right? He's looking at his life, he's presenting it before Jesus, and saying, "What's missing? "What am I lacking?" I know the key or the focus here in this conversation is really on the fact that Jesus looked at him and loved him in verse 21, which I really appreciate that obviously Jesus loves everybody, but why does he love this man so much? I think it's this man's heart that really stands out to me, it's his character, his willingness, I think, to ask this question, because this is not the kind of question that you ask if you just want to be comfortable. This is not the kind of question you bring up to the master teacher when really all you wanna do is just keep doing what you've always been doing. Maybe he was trying to justify himself, but it doesn't entirely seem that way. He seems sincere to me. I don't see him as trying to trick Jesus in this case, which I think keys off of the fact that Jesus looks at him and loves him. And I think it's because he really is genuine and sincere in trying to hear honest criticism. And it just reminds me, man, if I really want to improve, then I need to go to the source of perfect improvement and ask this same exact question, like, what am I missing? I feel like too often we view criticism as like a negative idea, but this man is really asking for it, he's like, inspect me, Jesus, what is it that's missing? Like, I've got all of these things, I'm doing all this stuff, 'cause I think he knew that something was missing. I think he really genuinely thought, there's something I gotta do, but I don't know what it is. And it was nagging at him and all good questions that I should be asking myself when I'm trying to be better and improve and take that next right step is like, what is it that's missing? And I think that's one of the great reasons why Jesus appreciated this young man. - Such an important question, like, what is not here that should be here in my life, in my family, in this church, you know, what is missing? That's a powerful question. And I agree with you completely that my sense of this young man, as you read it, is that he was earnest. There's so many times that someone asks Jesus a question and the gospel writers say, as they tried to test him, or Jesus looked at him, knew his heart and challenged them on it, but here he looked at him and he loved him and he gave him direction. And that is the part that jumps out at me also, just looking at him, he loved him, and then he told him the hardest true words he would ever hear. Jesus saw his true need and offered him a path to live his best life, how to live his eternal life. And when we look at our friends and those around us who need the gospel, when we look at them and love them, then we can follow the example of Jesus and offer them the words of life they need. It's not like Jesus was harsh or mean. It's not Matthew 23 with the Pharisees. Listen to me, you rich snake. He wasn't beating him down, but he was super clear and he was clear in response to a question, which makes it all the more, he at first gives a broad, generic answer to the question that is like, he wasn't avoiding the answer. Then he was like, okay, you're ready? Okay, let me give you the specific step. Like he said, the thing that's missing. And sometimes we all need someone to love us enough to be clear. You have a blind spot and I can see something that you can't and I'm concerned about you. I love you, but I would want someone to tell me this. And so here it is, the path you need to take to be better, to be able to be free. - Yeah, I think when you talked about like, what do we need to say, what needs to be said, and that word need kind of popped up all throughout what you were just saying there. It's like Jesus needed to say this to him because this was the thing that was needed to change in his life. What is that for me? I don't know. What is that for my friends? I don't know, but am I gonna have the courage to stand up and be clear with people when something needs to be said? And that's really what this whole conversation is about. Let's move into our second segment here on the episode. And that is, what's the deal with that? (upbeat music) So I think it's really funny in this whole conversation because we just got done talking about developing a circle of safety with each other, like having trust and integrity and being trustworthy kinds of people, like making a safe space for us to open up and share with each other. And now we're talking about poking each other in the eye. And it's like, wait a second, these two things just feel so different from each other. And I feel like this would be a helpful conversation to kind of get into the nuance of like, how is it that we can both have this circle of safety with trust and openness, but also say the things that need to be said? - Yeah, like, you know, I'm not feeling so safe anymore with this correction coming at me, right? That is a natural thing. - Shields up. - But hopefully that sense of security affects us. And like we've been talking about already, that trust changes our ability to hear the things we really need. So we can be safe because someone is pulling us out of the fire. So the first question we have is, how does Proverbs 25, 11 to 12 change your perspective on giving and receiving corrections? Let me read that passage. It says, "A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in a setting of silver. Like a gold ring or an ornament of gold is a wise reprover to a listening ear." And I think the word that jumps out at me here is fitly, a fitly spoken word. It doesn't just say a reproof. A correction is like apples of gold in a setting of silver, but it's trying to make a point about something specific. It's about the right words at the right time. It's about finding what chapter 15, verse 23 of Proverbs calls an apt answer, or Ephesians 429 says that we need talk that fits the occasion that it may give grace to those who hear. And so sometimes that's comfort. Sometimes that's encouragement, but sometimes it is correction. And so we need to think about what is required. And if we're committed to each other, then we're going to work through that and look out for what is the apt response right now? What is the fitly spoken word I can offer? And it's funny, the perfect engagement ring for one person is gaudy and ugly or old fashioned or way too simple or whatever for someone else. And so whenever it brings up this idea like a gold ring or an ornament of gold is a wise reprover to a listening ear, it's making a contrast between reproof to a fool, reproof to someone who isn't listening well versus to the one who's tuning in. And so that's our choice. How are we going to receive what's necessary? And we have to find the wisdom in something. - Yeah, and I think it just highlights right off the bat here that reproof and correction can actually be viewed as a good thing when you're receiving it well. I also think it's interesting you were talking about the heart of the person receiving it there in that proverb, because that leads to our second question, which is about a totally different subject. And that is Nathan and John the Baptist. Nathan and John the Baptist both confronted a king's sin. And that's referencing Nathan's story with David in 2nd Samuel 12 verse seven, John the Baptist story confronting Herod the king in Mark six verses 14 through 29. So the question is why did David and Herod react differently in both stories? In one case, you have David after hearing you are the man deciding that he is going to change and saying, I have sinned against God like he understood. This is something I have done and I need to correct this. Herod on the other hand, when John the Baptist got in his face about this improper relationship that he was having, Herod eventually decided to kill John the Baptist and behead him. So two very different reactions to criticism, but both of the messengers I think we see in these stories didn't pull any punches. I think it's just so powerful to see these two men, they got in a king's face, which is like, you know, you're just asking for trouble when you're doing that kind of thing. But I think the powerful difference between David and Herod's reaction was their love for the Lord and their willingness to see their own faults. David loved God first and foremost, he had made mistakes, he had gone down the wrong road, but he loved God and he wanted to maintain and go back to restoring that relationship, whereas Herod just didn't really appear to be interested in being better, he only appeared to be selfishly doing whatever he wanted to do. So I think it goes to the heart, like the listening ear of the person receiving the message, receiving the correction is so important because if you're not willing to hear, if you're not willing to listen, then the message that comes to you, it's gonna seem extreme. And on David's hand, he took it well, on Herod's hand, he did not. - Yeah, the real contrast in those two stories that you drew out is so clear. They both brought this clarity of rebuke and correction, but the responses were so different. And that really highlights the importance of how we listen. We don't know how the person in our next question responded, but I think we have a pretty good idea based on his character. Yeah, so our next question is about Paul and Philemon. We asked, what lessons do you learn from the way Paul encouraged Philemon about how to deal with confrontation? This is referencing the short and wonderful letter that Paul wrote to Philemon about trying to create reconciliation between him and Philemon's former bond servant, Onesimus. And there is so much to take from this, and it starts right at the beginning, as Paul just approaches him with such love, and you know how someone sees you when they talk to you. You know whether they see you with this harsh view, like they're coming just to tear you down, and versus when they really care. And he talks about, "I thank my God always "when I remember you in my prayers. "I hear about your love, your faith. "I hear about everything you're doing. "You are on the track. "You are my partner. "You're my fellow worker, my fellow soldier, "and I've taken so much joy and comfort from you "and your love. "You refresh me. "You refresh everybody." And so, you know, it's not like, sometimes I feel like people talk about it like it's manipulative, like it's the compliment sandwich that he's giving here is him just setting up Philemon to do what he wants. And that's not at all it, I think. I mean, it's thoughtful, it's intentional. He's definitely trying to let him know where he's coming from and to set the stage for the kind of conversation he wants to have with him so that Onesimus can hear rightly where he's coming from. I'm not coming to beat you down. He even says, "I could come and command you, "but that's not what I'm doing. "I appeal to you for love's sake. "I'm an old man, and I'm appealing to you "for my child, Onesimus." - But then he leverages his friendship. He says, "Put everything on me and on our relationship. "I have confidence that our relationship is strong enough "for you to hear me well in this "and for you to take back someone that could be executed "for running away according to Roman laws." He says, "If you consider me your partner, "receive him as you would receive me. "If he's wronged you, he owes you anything, "charge it to my account." You know, "I'm writing this with my own hand. "I will repay it. "You know me, and I know who you are, "and I know what our relationship means to both of us." And this is that important that you take this step. He's imitating Christ and Christ's ministry of reconciliation. He's an ambassador of reconciliation here, not just between God and the people that he's teaching, but between one another, two brothers in Christ. And he really believes this guy is of such character, he's gonna do what's right. And that makes a big difference when we talk to people. When we go in assuming that they're going to reject the whole thing, it affects the whole conversation. We are defensive right from the start. We are on the attack right from the start, as opposed to when we believe in them, we see them well, we love them, we want the best for everyone involved, and we show up with that. It just changes things. And even I find that I have more confidence in speaking because I feel like I know who I'm coming into the conversation with in a different way. - I think when you said that he's leveraging his relationship, that's spot on, right? Because it's so important that Paul is the one to do this, because Paul is the one who's developed and laid the foundation with Philemon, right? He's the one who's put in the legwork to be able to go in and ask for some really hard things. And to be able to pull the emergency rip cord and have to jump into this kind of conversation without having done the legwork up front, you know, to be able to develop this kind of relationship with Philemon, I don't think Philemon cares a bit about Paul if Paul hasn't already invested himself in this relationship. So I feel like there's a real power there in everything that Paul has done up to the moment that he asks him this hard thing, which I think kind of leads into the last question a little bit, which is how could iron sharpening iron in Proverbs 27 verse 17, probably the most famous verse when talking about friendship, iron sharpening iron, how can that go wrong without the previous discussion on the last conversation about trust and integrity? And I think like you said in the conversation starter, how there's a difference between a mugger's knife and a surgeon's scalpel. I mean, there's such a subtle difference between those two things, right? But it's about the intention. What is it about these two things that are challenging, that are difficult, that are sharp and, you know, really directed and focused and can hurt? What is the purpose behind the hurting? Is it about loving somebody enough to help remove something that is broken in their life or fix something that's broken in their life? Or is it just to tear people down? I think on the surface, you know, sharpening somebody is abrasive and there's sparks that fly. And when you look at it, it's like, oh yeah, that doesn't look like it's doing anything good. But you know, when you actually understand that this is a positive thing and it's being done in a way that's careful and methodical and tactful, loving all the things that we've been talking about, it really does change what it can accomplish aside from you like going in and just banging two pieces of metal together. And I can be the bull in a china shop sometimes without all of the backstory like we were just talking about with Philemon, without the ground and the foundation of friendship and trust and loyalty and honesty and everything that we've been talking about. If I just run into somebody's life and start trying to rip around and try to get them to change and telling them all the things that they need to do, passive aggressive backhanded comments and all kinds of stuff like that, that's not loving. And that's not gonna lead somebody to change in a positive way. It's probably just gonna lead to more resentment. So I don't know, you think about iron sharpening iron and it's a positive thing when you look at it from Proverbs 27 and 17's perspective, but it sure can go wrong if we don't have that sort of foundation of love and honesty with people. - Yeah, I think you're getting right to the heart of the issue here and the stakes could not be higher on both sides of this. I just feel like my whole life I've watched this go wrong in both directions in the church and souls be lost because of it, where on the one hand there is like a heap, a graveyard of souls who have been beaten down and discarded and just like the way that they were approached by people that didn't know them at all, that just crushed them. And of course they're responsible for their response and they're gonna answer for the tragedy of their failing, their giving up and not persevering through it. But so will the person who went to one of these little ones and made them stumble and that's so deadly and I just have seen it so much. On the other hand, it's ironically and sadly often the people who have invested that love and care and trust that are too beholden to the relationship and their fear of harming the fabric of what's good there that they don't wanna speak up. They're the ones that could reach a person and that would do it with love and that could connect and the onus is on that person, like you were saying about Paul, he was the right person for that job. Not in spite of his closeness with Philemon but because of his closeness with Philemon. If you have a dear friend or a family member that you're close to and that respects you and loves you and sees you well, you might not want to harm that by making them mad at you by going and telling them something that you know they're gonna hate to hear and they might resent you forever for it. You just don't know how people are gonna respond. But you are the one to do it. You have to step up because if the preacher goes and talks to them when they don't know anybody or if some bystander that just sees the issue and steps up, it's not to absolve anybody, the shepherds or other people in the church or anybody else of the responsibility to speak the truth and love. But there is someone who has greater effect and I think that's really at the core of this is that's friendship. Friendships are built for those moments and we can't back down from them. - It's so true. I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head completely. There are so many lives that are impacted by people not doing the thing that they're uniquely equipped to do and there are people whose lives are impacted by people who should not speak up, who do so anyway in a way that is not helpful or loving and man, it's just that tightrope line of figuring out how best to approach the situation and it's about discernment and love and prayer and gentleness and all the things that go into it. But let's move on to our last segment here on the episode and that is our reach out question. ♪ Reach out, reach out and touch someone ♪ - Okay, the reach out question for this week as we kind of dig a little deeper here is what have you learned about how to have a difficult conversation that works? You know, you've been on this planet for a little bit now, Bryan. I'm sure you've had your share of difficult conversations on both ends of those. So what have you picked up over the years? - Okay, so this isn't gonna be super deep or like really overly thoughtful, I suppose, but you talked about the compliment sandwich a second ago in talking about Philemon in that story and I was just, I cannot stop thinking about the compliment sandwich because whether it's an open-faced compliment sandwich or it's a two pieces of bread compliment sandwich, it's so often easy when you've got something difficult to say, when you got a meaty thing that you need to talk about to not surround it by compliments and I think we see that all throughout the Bible especially when Paul is writing to people, he's like, I need to tell you some really positive things about yourself 'cause I'm gonna get into the difficult things here in short order and I think it's good, I think it helps to validate that we're not just being overly critical when we compliment somebody. There is, however, a word that we will use in the transition between that first compliment and then the meaty challenging stuff and it's the one word that I think if we avoided the word, it would do us a lot of good and this is one thing I've tried in my own conversations to deal with and that is the word but. I really appreciate how thoughtful and loving you've been to me and to my family, the way you've always stepped in and taken care of us and how you're the best person that I could ever think of to go and ask about advice related to some topic or whatever, like this is the opening compliment and then you say but and then you get into your complaint or your criticism or whatever it is. That word, for whatever reason, that word basically just lights on fire all of the previous stuff you just got done saying. - You're kinda waiting for it sometimes. I'm not hearing any of this. - Exactly because you're just like, all you're waiting for is the but and sometimes if you just don't say it, like if you stop talking, the person would actually respond that way but, you know, like knowing that it's gonna happen, knowing that it's an expectation, it's just such a slight tweak but I think it's helpful in changing the tone of a conversation. All that stuff that you're saying doesn't really mean anything because you're just about to throw it all away to get into something more substantive. You're an amazing person. You're a great father. I appreciate the way that I can always come and talk to you and I really want you to know that because of all of those things and because of how important you are, there's something important that needs to be said and that just like the tone in that conversation, the way you might phrase that, it feels like you're not discounting all of that previous stuff. It's because of those things that you're saying the difficult thing that comes next and so I feel like there's just maybe a small tweak that you can make in those compliment sandwich kinds of conversations and maybe turn it into a little bit more positive spin instead of just ignoring it and moving on to how terrible they are. - I think that's great. Even in the examples you gave, just you're giving your motive. You're explaining. When you get to what could be a but, you're actually instead saying, and here's what I want to accomplish with this conversation because of just how much you mean to me. - Yeah. - And it's kind of like, the word compliment is one of those, it's kind of a weak word to me anyways. The connotation to me is a little bit surface as opposed to you use the word appreciate or honor. What if instead of a compliment sandwich, we wrap the whole thing up in an honor wrap or an appreciation burrito, right? - Appreciation burrito. - And we're just surrounding everything with love for this person and seeing them, and the honor as we've often talked about is about seeing the worth of a person and seeing who this person is and really loving them and seeing the bad and the good and speaking up out of care and concern. That's Philemon, right? That's the book of Philemon is it's all surrounded in genuine honor. It's not like weak. It's like real honor. You have done something for me that gives me so much comfort and gets me through, it's this old man through these hard times. It really is a different kind of thing, like a boss that doesn't know the employee comes up and says, here's one thing you're doing well. And like you said, but there it is. - I think we can already see both of us are thinking like, how do I summarize down so much that needs to be said about this? There's like a 13 session guided study about difficult conversations, right? That it's hard to give one answer to this question. Maybe one helpful lesson is about how to pray about it. When I opened the issue before God and I work through it, I gain clarity and I have a different kind of peace because of the time in prayer about it, thinking through it, praying through it, continually bringing it before God and talking and being still before God. Before the Lord, there's no hiding your motives or your fears. He sees everything. He sees and he knows, and I know that he sees me. So that leaves me with no falseness in it, no pretense. And I just start to get deeper and deeper into the issue. And I have to come clean with what's going on with me and make sure that I am aligned with him. And as I yield the issue and the outcome, because he sees what's gonna come of all of this, which is really helpful to know in your faith that God knows I'm praying about this. He sees what's about to happen and the whole thing. And I'm just leaving it with him to do with as he wants. And I'm saying, I want to do what you want. So help me. I could do whatever you think is right. And I'm trying to think through it. And I'm trying to say, help me to have the wisdom to know and I'm surrendering it. And the surrender helps me clarify what it looks like to obey Christ in the matter. What's God's will about this? And I work to align my will to his and call on him to accomplish what he wants through me and give me the right time, open doors, show me the right way. And then I just plead for blessings on my friend. And as you pray for somebody, you start to see them more like God does because God loves them so unconditionally and so fully. And the more you pray for that person, the more you get out of your little tiny world and start to want what's best in their world and start to empathize in a different way and tell God that you accept whatever happens and you pray only that you'd be faithful and that his will would be done. No surprise, prayer is a game changer. Prayer just changes everything because God acts in prayer. And also we are changed through the act of prayer as God works in us. - You know how else we're changed? Sometimes we're changed by a challenge. - I am ready to face any challenges that might be foolish enough to face me. - So I think everything that you've just said and everything we've just been talking about is some practical stuff. And I think that sort of leads us into our challenge for this week about taking on something practical. - And the challenge is to consider how to stir up a friend to love and good works this week. Of course, pulling from Hebrews 10, 24, and I love that word consider. It's like we're thinking about, we're seeking, we're pondering how to make a difference in each other's life, to nudge and push each other on to the kind of life and love and working that we need to have. - I feel like this one feels like a softball kind of challenge, right? You know, that we just sit around and consider how to stir up for love and good works for somebody. But I think it's a rough one, to be honest. Like if you think about this word stir, stirring can be pretty violent and dynamic. And sometimes people don't wanna be stirred. You know, if you think about like you're asleep and you're enjoying your relaxation time and someone comes in and tries to stir you out of bed, it's like, well, hold on, hold on. You know, but really figuring out like, how can you tactfully and maybe even tactically get someone to make positive change despite their desire to stay the same? It's gonna be a lot of prayer and thought. So game on, may the Lord help us to avoid sticking our feet right in our mouths when we try to consider how to stir somebody up for love and good works this week. - Oh man, you nailed it. Yeah, that word definitely has a sense of sharpness to it in the Greek as well. There is a force to stirring each other up out of love. So I love this challenge and appropriate to everything we've been talking about about working and about prayer and calling on God to help us. Let's have our closing prayer. The one we suggested in the study guide is to help us to sharpen one another as we serve you together coming from that verse in Proverbs 27, 17. Let's pray. Our Holy and loving Father, we draw close to you now and we know that you are drawing near to us. We worship you with our whole being. We acknowledge you as the one true God, our maker, our judge, our redeemer. May you be glorified in everything we do today. May you be lifted up in our relationships as we try to build each other up, help us to look out for each other, open our hearts to hear the hard words, to hear the wisdom that we all need to receive. We know we don't have it all figured out and we need each other. We need your correction and we need those times when you use our brothers and sisters to speak those words of realignment with you. Fill us with courage. Fill us with the love we need to speak up and sharpen one another. Give us insight to perceive all the needs and opportunities and potential pitfalls of the people around us, but never let us take our eyes off of our needs. And we know that it is you who works within us, and that we are all in this together. And we know that we are all in this together. We know that you are a part of us. We know that you are a part of us. We know that you are a part of us. We know that you are a part of us. We know that you are a part of us. We are a part of you. We know that you are a part of us. We know that you are a part of us. We know that you are a part of us. We know that you are a part of us. We know that you are a part of us. And we know that you are a part of us. And we know that you are a part of us. And we know that you are a part of us. - Is really about going through stuff together. You know, it's kind of a extension of this conversation about difficult times, but these are difficult times not brought out by each other towards each other, but just stuff that we're going through together. So in preparation for that conversation, we encourage you to read 2 Corinthians 1, verses three to four, Romans 12, verses 10 to 16, and Galatians 6, verses one to five. Of course you knew I would be using the word penultimate. - I did indeed. I can't believe we're already there in this guided study, but look forward to that next one as we start to get into kind of the way that friendships bless our lives in these last two conversations. - All right, so this has been episode 209 of the Bible Geeks podcast. Thanks so much everyone for tuning in. You can find show notes for this episode in your podcast player of choice, or at biblegeeks.fm/209. You can also find this series, this guided study two by two over at biblegeeks.fm/twobytwo. And if you have any questions or comments you want to reach out to us, feel free to do so on our website or on social media, or just poke us on the eye if you see us in person. So thanks so much everyone for tuning in. And until next episode, may the Lord bless you and keep you. - Shalom.